During our trail fix.. I was going to redo the ground going to the engine, so I had loosened off the bolt holding it in, this was prior to dropping the starter and removing the positive cable, somewhere along the way Dave distracted me (I'm blaming you Dave, you were making me laugh) and I forgot to do the bolt back up, so it was still loose, so when Nick suggested we ground the starter with the jump lead, it worked

Nice new cable in place, and routed a different path, starts up better that it did before, have a length of cable and connectors to add to the offroad emergency kit too.